the gorbott

i just finished a book on art theory and criticism. it got me thinking: "is graphic design fine art." most reputable institutions of higher learning offer graphic design degrees as a ba or bfa. some smaller universities offer it as a bs. i have been to and participated in gallery exhibitions of design work. yet it can be hard to view things like simple logo design as a piece of fine art. on the other hand, if something is a piece of fine art displayed on a gallery wall, is it really a functional design? any thoughts? any insights?

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Saywells

how very Warhol's Campbell's Soup can.

In theory, Graphic Design uses art to communicate information.

Fine Art, in geeky terms, is a categorical description that resides on the end-user, in my opinion. In Academia, it is narrowed down by its purity of medium (printmaking, painting, theatre, sculpture, etc...)

But f*** it, if I think Eric Nitsche can be framed and hung above my mantle, then it's fine art to me!

Distill

Excellent topic! I'm interested to hear what others have to say.

I've always made the following distinction between art and design (graphically, or in any other medium): Art is all about subtlety and subjectivity, whereas design is about simplicity.

That's not to say that the act of designing is simple, but the product should be (clear and concise, easily digested--one might say "intuitive"). Like street signs or a user-friendly website, for example--something you can look at and know exactly what it is, how to use it, what it means, etc.

Art, I believe, is something which rewards study on a deeper level (the product, I mean)--it's more "interpretive". 10 people could look at (or listen to, or taste) the piece and come away with 10 different ideas of what it's about; or the same person's interpretation could change based on mood or context.

I wasn't a visual arts major, but I did study English and communications, and I think the distinction is a lot like the difference between literature and brochure copy--they're using the same medium to different ends.

Regarding Eric Nitsche, Stereo, I'd say that's art all the way. It's clean and crisp (most people's hallmarks of design), but it's definitely open to interpretation. Throwing it on a postcard or having a company's logo on it doesn't (necessarily) mean it's not art.

Gino

I think anything you create visually can be considered art, but our society and brains like to categorize things and the end use of the visual creation and its message end up determining whether the majority of people will think its "graphic design" or fine art".

I think its good to have categories, but I think its also important to realize that designers are not just designers they are artists too.

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the gorbott

i thought some more about it. i also read some more about it. it seems that art in many cases is not created for anyone in particular except the artist (see henry darger http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_Darger). it is created for the sake of being created. in the case of design, it is created to communicate a specific idea, to a sometimes very specific audience.

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carlovillamin

Design - PURPOSE Driven
Art - PASSION Driven

Design - THINK
Art - EMOTE

Design - OBJECTIVE
Art - SUBJECTIVE

Design - BRAIN
Art - HEART

Design - FUNCTION
Art - FASHION


Something like these.... you know.


"Design is not how it LOOKS... it is how it WORKS..." - Steve Jobs


If the outcome of the work is based on the objective and purpose of the concept of the project then we consider it as a design. On the other hand, if the outcome of the work is purely based on the emotion of the creator and with the intention to express one's passion, feeling and desire, then we consider it as a form of art.

Design can use art to serve its purpose and Art can use design to express itself.

These two can go hand in hand just like our MIND and EMOTION is working.

Thank you. =)

rick22

i think its art man.. and all of us here are artists....

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alyCe

Dictionary on ART:

art1 [ahrt] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun 1. the quality, production, expression, or realm, according to aesthetic principles, of what is beautiful, appealing, or of more than ordinary significance.
2. the class of objects subject to aesthetic criteria; works of art collectively, as paintings, sculptures, or drawings: a museum of art; an art collection.
3. a field, genre, or category of art: Dance is an art.
4. the fine arts collectively, often excluding architecture: art and architecture.
5. any field using the skills or techniques of art: advertising art; industrial art.
6. (in printed matter) illustrative or decorative material: Is there any art with the copy for this story?
7. the principles or methods governing any craft or branch of learning: the art of baking; the art of selling.
8. the craft or trade using these principles or methods.
9. skill in conducting any human activity: a master at the art of conversation.
10. a branch of learning or university study, esp. one of the fine arts or the humanities, as music, philosophy, or literature.
11. arts, a. (used with a singular verb) the humanities: a college of arts and sciences.
b. (used with a plural verb) liberal arts.
12. skilled workmanship, execution, or agency, as distinguished from nature.
13. trickery; cunning: glib and devious art.
14. studied action; artificiality in behavior.
15. an artifice or artful device: the innumerable arts and wiles of politics.
16. Archaic. science, learning, or scholarship.

[Origin: 1175–1225; ME < OF, acc. of ars < L ars (nom.), artem (acc.)]

Dicitionary on DESIGN:

de·sign [di-zahyn] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–verb (used with object) 1. to prepare the preliminary sketch or the plans for (a work to be executed), esp. to plan the form and structure of: to design a new bridge.
2. to plan and fashion artistically or skillfully.
3. to intend for a definite purpose: a scholarship designed for foreign students.
4. to form or conceive in the mind; contrive; plan: The prisoner designed an intricate escape.
5. to assign in thought or intention; purpose: He designed to be a doctor.
6. Obsolete. to mark out, as by a sign; indicate.

–verb (used without object) 7. to make drawings, preliminary sketches, or plans.
8. to plan and fashion the form and structure of an object, work of art, decorative scheme, etc.

–noun 9. an outline, sketch, or plan, as of the form and structure of a work of art, an edifice, or a machine to be executed or constructed.
10. organization or structure of formal elements in a work of art; composition.
11. the combination of details or features of a picture, building, etc.; the pattern or motif of artistic work: the design on a bracelet.
12. the art of designing: a school of design.
13. a plan or project: a design for a new process.
14. a plot or intrigue, esp. an underhand, deceitful, or treacherous one: His political rivals formulated a design to unseat him.
15. designs, a hostile or aggressive project or scheme having evil or selfish motives: He had designs on his partner's stock.
16. intention; purpose; end.
17. adaptation of means to a preconceived end.

[Origin: 1350–1400; ME designen < L désignāre to mark out. See de-, sign]

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The problem with design (as in graphic - design) is that you can not say that the practice of graphic design is an artform, or that graphic design is a creative practice at all. not because it isn't or is, but because graphic design isn't one thing. I have seen several pieces of "graphic design" that I would concider art, and several pieces that I would under no circumstances concider art, both with art and graphic design you have to question youself what the terms mean to you. For some, art has to meet certain standards (a beautiful painting is art, sperm on a rock isn't), while for another art has to be expressive, not of quality (so that the sperm on the rock would be much more intriguing! What could it possibly mean!?")

I've seen debated over on and over what art is, and it's not easy to agree on. The common factory is that it is an idea molded into a physical form (usually a visual one). What lies behind it all is ideas, thoughts, feelings, beliefs and to some extend what you have learned. There are principles of both art and design, rules to be followed and broken.

In my opinion the definition is fluid, but the border (if there is such a thing) is purpose. The main difference between a design and a piece of art is the purpose of it. This is not a black and white thing, but more of a guideline. The purpose of art is expression FROM the artist TO the viewer, comunicating feelings and ideas. You can also say that design is expression, but rarely from the designer to the viewer. Design is a mean to an end, whilst art is just there, it's only purpose to express an idea or feeling.

There are of course lots of shades of gray inbetween. A designers logo is an expression of who he is. Although it is purpose-driven in a business-sense it also has an expressive quality of the designers personality and thoughts. The same is with contemporary art, which is art that communicates social (etc) issues in the world. There is contemporary design that does the same, and suddenly the lines are blurred, and the difference it seems is if it hangs as a poster in the streets or in a gallery.

I think in many ways graphic design has a lot to "learn" from art. Art is (almost) without rules, rebellious, diverse. Art is so much more than paintings. It is installations, collages, everything. The greatest piece of advertising (although maybe not "graphic design" per se) is in the tube-station in Oslo, where there is an ad for a new Norwegian horror movie. They have switched out all the lights in the one hall from yellowish (the normal light) to red, to get a menacing feeling, and inside glass monitors they have moss, twigs, grass etc and here and there are a dirty bloody shoe. A great mix between an art-installation and advertising that overwhelmes and affects the thousand people that walks there every day.

Wow, this turned into a loong rant! I'll post this now and hopefully get some responses, maybe I'll carry on, maybe i'll turn it into a book XD

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Cain

alyCe

If you got the chance, check out the ART issue of Grafik (february) and Saville's thought on the subject, well worth the read

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